Life-Work Balance: Flip the Script!

Episode Transcript

Kelly Callahan-Poe: What if the secret to success isn’t working harder or finding better balance, but flipping the entire script and putting your life before your work? Welcome to the Two Marketing Moms podcast. I’m Kelly Callahan-Poe and today’s episode is called Life Work Balance, Flip the Script with Sophia Mikelionis. Sophia is a life and career coach, the founder of Gearing Together and the creator of the Liberated Leader Method, which helps ambitious women stop outsourcing their self worth to their resumes and start leading with clarity. Welcome, Sophia.

Sophia Mikelionis: Hey, how are you, Kelly?

Kelly: I love this topic because it’s so obvious and I’m not sure why anyone didn’t think about it before, but you call it life-work balance instead of work-life balance. What made you realize we had it backwards all along?

Sophia: You know, it all started with a moment in my car. You know how like you, you’re in the parking lot before you walk into the office and I’m running through the list of all the things I need to do. And again, I can’t start all of these items until I get off work. I can’t call during lunch and I’m like, wow, everything is revolving around work. Like, is this, is this what it’s come to?

I’ve been creating a life centered by work, by default, like rest, even my relationships, even laughter, everything is after work. And I thought, man, life, all these other things are more fun. That should be the foundation. That should be where it starts. And I really believe that when women lead with life first, their boundaries make sense. Their energy becomes non-negotiable. And that’s where sustainable pace, sustainable leadership, actually begins.

Kelly: So what do you mean by leading with life first?

Sophia: So I know that’s a question.

Kelly: It’s like I’m Generation X. I’m not used to that. I mean, of course I would love to be able to do that.

Sophia: Yeah, so basically what we’re doing is we’re working 24 hours around the clock to answer emails, you know, to make sure that decks are complete, to make sure that employees have, you know, a good manager that has an open door policy. But what happens when you start with filling your cup first, right? So that’s what I mean by it, because often if we don’t fill our cup, everybody talks about like, you can’t pour from an empty cup, but unless you put things in your cup that actually energize you. So like, starting with a pace day, easing into your day or doing things that are sent to you first. Everything you do is like in reaction mode. So that’s what I mean by living first, like starting with a pace morning, starting to really enjoy that first cup of coffee instead of like me. I would have the Keurig machine pre-programmed for my commute so that way I could grab that cup and run out the door. And instead of doing that, let me wake up like five minutes early so that way I can actually enjoy my morning. I can start with gratitude. I can start with actually kind of like planning out how I want to approach the day with things that energize me. Like I want to talk to my friend during my commute. So let me send her a text. Hey, you know, are you out the door at the same time I am? So that way I can start my day with some laughs. You know, I can just start my day with things that I really enjoy, right? Versus the to-do list and everything that’s clawing at me asking for energy.

Kelly: What are the top barriers you see consistently showing up for high achieving women?

Sophia: The top ones. Okay. The first one is that success equals sacrifice in order to be successful. I have to sacrifice and yes, I will give you that one. Sometimes you do have to make sacrifices, but all the time 10 years of sacrifices, like at some point you do need to shift. So that way it isn’t always a sacrifice and talking through that and redefining what success looks like based on your phase of life. That’s critical. And that’s something that takes a lot of a mindset shift, but also approaching it and practicing it daily. So that’s one. The second one I would say would be just invisible labor. There’s so many things that we do that we don’t even realize that we’re doing it, but we do it in the name of leadership. What do I mean, taking on emotional and mental tasks that no one sees? You know that RACI chart, who’s responsible, accountable, consulted and informed every single one, right? You’re setting up the next meeting, you’re asking the meeting organizer for an agenda because they forgot again, you’re proofreading decks for junior associates, who should know better at this point? You have an open door policy that, I mean, anyone can ping you at any time and all of these things. Yes, it’s leadership, but there’s so many invisible pieces that not only are we not talking about, but we’re not managing up. We’re not saying, hey, you’ve actually been in this role for three months now. If you could give it a try first and then find me on Friday if you’re still stuck, that would be great. We have to manage up instead of just picking up the Slack for everyone. And I mean that not only literally but figuratively. Picking up the Slack, the instant messenger Slack, sometimes you answer every single ping for everyone. It’s like, yes, yeah, yeah, let it go on red so that way some people can.

Kelly: Yeah, I turn it off. I turn it off and check it a couple times a day.

Sophia: Yeah, do their own work. Yeah.

Kelly: Drives me nuts. Well, I’m going to follow up on a couple things that you said. You were talking about different sayings that are kind of mantras that are traps for women. So some other examples would be, you know, winners never quit, work smarter, not harder. Why are all these sayings and mantras traps for women?

Sophia: You know what? Because they reward burnout.

Like winners never quit. I mean, it sounds noble, but it actually keeps women stuck in misaligned jobs, toxic leadership roles, or even businesses that they have outgrown all because quitting feels like failure. But there have been so many winners who have quit and we call that retirement, right? Like think about Michael Jordan. He stepped away. He retired and we say, wow, like Michael Jordan retired. No one says he quit the game. Like it’s so it’s the words that we use and the way that we label it, right? Work smarter, not harder. Honestly, that’s just a pretty way of saying do more with less support. Real leadership is knowing when to walk away, when to slow down, and when to stop proving your worth through pain. And that’s not quitting. It’s self-respect. I respect myself enough to go to bed on time. I’m not going to keep working these all-nighters because we have to get this to the finish line. Instead, I’m going to manage up. I’m going to communicate that the deadline is unreasonable.

And we’re making, honestly, we’re making decisions from a full cup. I know who I am. I know what I’m capable of. I know that I’m accomplished. I know what I need to show up as my best self instead of scarcity. I gotta do this because no one else will. I gotta do this because I need this job. Like, we have to look at it differently. That’s why those mantras, ooh, they kind of eat me up because they shouldn’t be mantras, you know?

Kelly: Yeah. Well, you talk about non-negotiables and boundaries. Can we dig in a little bit so we can talk about what are some examples of non-negotiables that make sense and boundaries? And also, how do you make them stick?

Sophia: I know, I know. Okay, so first, when people talk about boundaries they often think about it from a defensive mode. They see a boundary as like a hard line in the sand. If you cross this line there’s gonna be consequences or I’m so sick of this. I’m not doing it again. This is my boundary, but instead I want you to think about what you value most. Do you value a good night’s sleep? Is that how you show up as your best self? Do you value spending time with your friends or your family? That’s what we want to protect right? So I want us to draw a circle around these items because we are going to protect those things and in doing that we’re going to set these boundaries that help us protect it. So let’s just reframe the way that we look at it and by doing that it’s easier to say hey I put in a solid nine hours today I’m going to log off and I’m going to approach it tomorrow with fresh eyes right because I need to show up for not only myself during this commute but for my family. Like it’s an easier conversation, it’s an easier limit to set, right? Because you’re looking at it from protecting those things that are most valuable to you. And it’s so funny because a lot of women in my workshops, they’re like, values, like, I don’t know what my values are. My values are getting my work done on time. My values are getting this project done again for bills. So that way, we look great for senior leadership. And then that’s when I ask clients in my workshops, just to pause and to think through what makes you happiest, right? And then if you can think about that, truly what makes you happy, that’s when we can identify values around those things. We’ll begin to slice it out, you know, additional questions behind that, but it starts with what makes you happy and then building that circle for boundaries.

Kelly: So for me, or especially for moms, a lot of that might be, I’m gonna be in the office at nine, or whatever that time is, I gotta take my kids and drop them off at the bus, and I will work until 5:30 or six, and then I will be offline during the dinner time, and if you really need me, I’ll be available after eight p.m., say. Or I’m not working at all after six p.m. So how do you make sure that you’re making those boundaries obvious to others and to get them to respect those boundaries.

Sophia: Yeah, well, honestly, it starts with yourself, right? If you are, if you feel good about the boundary and you know that you need this boundary in order to show up as your best self at work and your best self at home. Number one, I really need you to get comfortable with it, right? Because yes, we’re going to manage up. But if you’re still dealing with some guilt, like, I feel bad that I’m not online. I feel bad that I’m not green all the time. That makes it tougher to hold the boundary, because if you can’t hold the boundary, people will cross it all the time and people will test you. I know she’s on vacation, but I’m going to send an email anyway because she might answer. Right. So once you set those boundaries, now we need to set some tiny habits to make it easier for you to keep the boundary. So if you are going to log off to be present with your family, I want you to actually close the laptop. I want the laptop to be in a different room. If you have two devices, the work phone, I want you to put that one in a drawer until it’s time for you to physically come back and take it out of the drawer, not face down on the desk. I want it to be in a drawer, out of sight, out of mind. If it’s on your phone, if your work stuff is on your personal phone, I need you to really use those do not disturb notifications, right? If it’s the school, the school will be on emergency bypass. But if it’s anything else, I want you to say do not disturb till like if you pick up the kids at three to two 30, starting at two 30. So that way it’s easier for you to keep that boundary. And then again, I talked about being comfortable with setting the boundary. I want you to ask yourself what happens if I don’t answer that email at two thirty, even though everyone knows, and I’ve communicated that I will pick it right back up at five, what will happen? You know, like honestly, like write down what will happen and then how do we protect or make sure that the worst case scenario doesn’t happen. Right? So let’s just say you have a demanding boss who is completely unreasonable. Is there someone else on your team who you can let know like, I will be offline. I will put you on my out of office. That’s another thing you can do. Put on your out of office during that window of time so that people know that you’re away. And I really like that one because it’s an automation that you don’t have to think about. Like Monday through Friday, it will automatically pop on. And then you’ve already talked to team members and put them on that out of office. You know, if in my absence, contact Kelly or contact Sophia. So that way there isn’t a gap that you left in your absence because you do need to be present for your family.

Kelly: One of the things that you like to talk about is how women have misconceptions about their time over the course of a 24-hour day. Can you talk to us about what you mean by that?

Sophia: The thing about time is we think that your calendar at work, it’s a fact. You know, if people book things over your lunch hour, it’s a fact. You have to accept it. You are bound or tethered to your desk. And that kind of starts this, I would say a cycle of bad habits, because if you just accept your calendar as fact, then you start making all these self sacrifices along the way. Yes, I’m gonna eat lunch at my desk. I have these granola bars here. Let me just make sure I have more coffee so I can push through. No.

Most women’s calendars aren’t designed, they’re just absorbed. We just accept it as is. And we inherit expectations from work, from home, from school, from culture, and we cram ourselves into them. And in my workshops, I ask women not to just track what they do, but how does it feel? Like, does a calendar full of Zoom calls feel good to you? Or have you just accepted that as normal? If it doesn’t feel good, how can we give ourselves some breathing room in between, right?

So is it blocking your lunch, purple? If you’re using Outlook, purple is a default for out of office. So can we do that? And then can we manage up and say, hey, this meeting is actually during my lunch hour. Is there an agenda? Let me give you some of my talking points because I won’t be present during that hour. Can we shift this to maybe 3 p.m. when more people don’t have to eat it during lunch. So that’s what I would say. I would say look at your calendar, look at what you’ve done for this past week and identify what is giving you energy and what is leaking, what is draining your energy. And then let’s try to put together some sort of tiny habit to either energize you or to build more space, more thinking space into your day. So I always talk about lunch because I feel like that’s the first sacrifice we always make. I’m just gonna eat lunch at my desk. No, you don’t have to, like by law, you are supposed to have a break, right? And if you continue to sacrifice that break for work, you are doing yourself a disservice, especially if you wanna be seen as a strategic leader instead of a doer.

Right? And look at yourself. I would even, if you could, look at yourself like you’re typing one-handed, holding a granola bar. Like, are you really even being successful in that? So looking at your calendar differently, what is energizing you versus what’s draining you?

Kelly: I think the time blocking is absolutely essential because post COVID, people have the ability with other new technologies that have come on that they can check your calendar to see if you’re available. And they would assume that if you have a period of time in your day that doesn’t have a meeting, they will automatically say, she’s not busy. And that drives me bad because there’s work that you have to do. So I prefer to put in my time blocks of when I’m actually working on a particular project. And I name that project and there’s a period of time. So no one can just shove a meeting in that time. Otherwise, if your calendar looks like it’s free, people will come in and take it. And I think that’s a management problem. I think people need to realize that maybe there’s certain periods of the day or certain days of the week where meetings should be allowed. But people do have to work. It’s not just about the meetings. You’re not like doing nothing if you don’t have a meeting.

Sophia: Yeah, and you’re absolutely right because then what happens is you take other people’s requests during the day, right? People block up all your time and then you feel like you’re stuck working at night because how else will you catch up? And this is what I’m talking about. It’s a cycle. So until you break that cycle by setting this small habit, this light boundary, right? Other people don’t know how to react, right? Until you can do that, until you break the cycle, until you say, you know what? I’m not gonna feel guilty about this because I do have to work 40 hours. How can I get this done in 40 hours if I’m putting out fires for other people? So I really like that hack that you mentioned.

Kelly: Well, you have something called the liberated leader method and you talked about different gears for different phases of life. Can you walk us through what that looks like?

Sophia: Yeah, I mean, so what am I? I talk about different phases of life, right? Because if you think about gears within a clock, right? Normally you can’t see the gears working behind the clock, an old analog clock, right? But some gears are big and some are small. And some of those cogs, those little notches in between, some are moving fast and some are moving slow. And I feel like we always think that we need to be running at 100 miles per hour every day all the time. And we need to find a way to give ourselves permission to slow down, give ourselves permission to think. And that’s what my program does, right? So gear one is recharging. Take your foot off the gas and truly ask yourself, I talked about that calendar audit, but ask yourself like, what is giving me energy and what makes me happiest right now? Like I’m not asking you to come up with a strategy, but just take a beat while you sip your coffee, while you’re waiting on your tea to brew, like what do I really enjoy and then once we can figure that out then we can start tracking items throughout your week that would be gear two which is reveal looking through your week like where am I starting to see those patterns of things that I like right? Because there’s so many invisible pieces of labor that we don’t even realize that we’re doing like no I don’t want to proof this deck one more time for this junior associate. Maybe I need to figure out how to empower them and again, I talked up sometimes it’s the open door policy or sometimes it’s having that hard conversation. You’ve been doing this job for three months now. You should be comfortable. But hey, if you have questions, find me on Friday, right? So identifying those energy leaks and then reclaiming your energy. That’s gear three, right? Like setting those soft boundaries, time blocking, but even refining asks. So that way you can give yourself space to work and to reactivate your voice. And then rising. We need to integrate these small shifts in real ways.

Yes it’s a messy week, but what real leadership happens when you can manage in motion, right? And one of my favorite clients, Lindsay, because she was so stubborn. She was just like, Sophia, I don’t have time for this. Right? I just have to go, go, go. But there was just talking through it. Like she realized that she was leading from gear three. She was setting all of her boundaries in defense mode without even realizing that wait, I don’t even know what I’m protecting. I don’t even know why I need to set this boundary, right? Is it because I need time to think and to do my work in a silo? Or is it because I need time to just eat because I’m hangry and that’s how I’ve been lashing out at people, right? So by doing this or even taking a beat to identify these items, you are giving yourself permission to slow down. And I think this is critical because often we look at HR, human resources. Sometimes we look at our managers. We look at our peers to give ourselves permission. But I want you to look in the mirror first, right? Because you are leading yourself. You have the ability to set, to choose. Everybody has different choices, different types of choices, but we all have the ability to choose how we show up. And that’s where it starts. I want you to feel free. I want you to be leading from not a scarcity mindset, but like an abundance. I know to be my best self, I need to show up differently.

Kelly: How do you know it’s time to shift gears? Is it burnout? Is it just not feeling good about what you’re doing in the course of a day?

Sophia: Yeah, honestly, it’s about how you feel at the end of the day? Do you truly have energy for the things that light you up?

Right. And that’s why I like to look at your week to see what you are doing? And if you feel like, yeah, I am, you know, being a mom, but I’m so tired. Right. Is that important to you? Does it make you, does motherhood bring happiness? Let’s start with what brings you happiness and how are you seeing those things throughout the week? Because burnout, honestly, it’s a symptom of a larger problem. Right. And sometimes burnout can show up in different ways. And in my world, burnout is when your energy is misaligned to your efforts right and sometimes your body will let you know because you get that involuntary eye twitch you get those tight shoulders right you’re just lashing out at people you’re just like why can’t anyone do anything right you’re calling everyone around you an idiot right but it really is about looking at yourself in the mirror, right? And understanding, am I showing up as my best self? And is this how I want to show up? And I always start by asking what makes you happiest? What are your values? Because sometimes we get energy from being, you know, the person in charge at work, right? But how are you re-energizing yourself so that way you aren’t making so many sacrifices, little sacrifices along the way. And a lot of them, some of them are just biological. How many times have you had back-to-back meetings and you’re trying to squeeze your bladder like, okay, I can hold it. I can push through one more meeting, right? So that’s what I’m saying. It’s not necessarily like burnout, but it’s like, what are you doing that’s draining your energy? Like, and look at your biological needs. Like, hold on. Like we should have bio breaks, scheduled bio breaks, you know?

Kelly: That’s been okay. Well are there any final tips that you have for switching from work-life balance to life-work balance?

Sophia: I talked about it a little bit earlier about people saying you can’t pour from an empty cup, but I want you to examine what is in your cup because I was doing all the things. I climbed the ranks in finance. I was killing it. I had the promotions, but I was a jerk to my friends, a jerk to my spouse, and I was really rude and impatient with my kids. So yeah, my cup was full of all these deliverables and killing it with all these projects and processes, but I was pouring out what I had within me which was pouring out more impatience. I was pouring out being judgmental, I was pouring out being rude. I was pouring out like all those things so that’s why this shift is necessary. So that way you can pour out a little laughter along the way, right? You can pour out a little bit of kindness along the way because you ate. You actually had a meal during lunchtime. Why? Because you actually put movement into your day so that way your shoulders aren’t tight. Why? Because you actually talked to some of your peers and said, man, are we doing, yes, we received that deliverable from that team, but are we doing their work instead of what we’re responsible for? So ask yourself those questions, because I really believe that if we lead ourselves better, we can lead our teams better and then we can have better results along the way. So just weaving little tips, little ways to recharge yourself is critical and it starts with ourselves.

Kelly: Well, thank you for sharing your insights today, Sophia. I’m going to have your contact information on the transcript on our website, twomarketingmoms.com. You can listen to this episode or watch it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or on twomarketingmoms.com. Don’t forget to subscribe and share. Thanks for joining.