How Being a Mom Makes You Better in Business

Episode Transcript

Julia: Hi, everyone, welcome to the Two Marketing Moms podcast. We are two moms with six kids between us. We’ve worked our way up the ladder, through advertising and marketing sometimes the hard way. I am Julia McDowell and my co-host is Kelly Callahan-Poe.

And we’re gonna talk about some of the struggles, fails and wins of balancing when you’re balancing being a boss, home life and being a mom, too. So today’s episode is about how being a mom can make you better in business. Because I think a lot of people are thinking well, oh, being a mom makes me feel worse in business. So we are here to pump you up today about being a mom and how you can use those strengths to really kick some butt.

I have so many things on my list here. I’m going to start off with the number one thing for how being a mom makes you better in business — it offers you perspective. I think all of us realize, as we go through phases of our lives, that we have a new perspective. We’re either more empathetic or more understanding, we’re more insightful, we feel smarter, all of those things are perspective. And when you become a mom, your perspective changes just generally, right? Because you now have this little person that is dependent on you, and you kind of change, you become a different woman. And so that perspective also changes in work. I think that for me, some of the little things like I stopped sweating the small stuff. I think that’s a book too. I started to look at people’s strengths and weaknesses in a different way. Because things were, like, new things were important to me, right. So time management was more important to me. Really being sensitive to people’s feelings was more of a priority for me when I became a mom, because now I have this little person who I was concerned about their feelings. And so that perspective, I think, makes you just like a stronger person in general, and definitely becomes a really good tool when you’re in business. Would you agree?

Kelly: For me, it’s being present more with children. And this is funny because my youngest son, who’s 12 has always done this since he was very little. And I think he learned it in Montessori School. He wants my undivided attention. And so, if I’m not looking at him while I’m talking to him, if I’m looking at my phone or looking at the TV, he literally takes my face and moves it.

Julia: Yes, yes.

Kelly: So that I really do pay attention. And that makes me realize, I need to do the same thing at work. If someone walks in my office, I need to put down, and you’ve mentioned this before about bosses. Put down my computer, stop multitasking and be present in the moment in terms of what they’re saying what they have to say, so that you can respond. And listen, not listen to respond, but just listen, to absorb.

Julia: That’s totally a different perspective, I think for sure. When you become a mom. It also helps you become a better boss, right? So we’ve talked about in other episodes of the podcast, like when you become a mom, you’re struggling with how do I continue climbing up that ladder? How do I keep feeding my career and moving forward? And that’s one of the ways you can do it is by growing as a leader and showing your team and showing the people above you that you are growing and becoming someone that is attentive and present. And I think that’s a really good idea. For sure. How about this one? I think this one is like, I feel like this was like the obvious one, but balance.

Kelly: So let’s talk about that perspective.

Julia: I mean, before I had a child, I was just balancing my husband and I, and our little house and our dog at the time. And I felt sometimes overwhelmed with that amount of responsibility. But then when I had a kid, I had so much more responsibility. And I went through that typical, like, after maternity leave, going back to work and feeling so guilty about being at work, and watching that clock, trying to get home, so that I could then give of myself as a mom. So I was having that tug of war, like, every day. And over time, I learned how to balance things, and how to give at work, give at home and then eventually give to myself, which was a huge piece of that. And that crept into my work life, because I no longer could blow a whole day trying to work on a report for a client. I had to be more meticulous about my time management to ensure that I could leave on time, or that I could take that break, or whatever it was. And so balance started to like, infiltrate my life in so many ways. You know, I also realized, I probably shouldn’t pack my day with meetings, because then I just become too mentally exhausted. And when I get home, I feel even guiltier because I’m just exhausted, I can’t be balanced. Can you relate? I bet you have other maybe balance related examples?

Kelly: Well, you know, that’s always a big topic among moms — can you ever truly be balanced? And I don’t know that you are going to be. There’s always going to be one thing that’s more important than the other or one thing that’s taking more of your time versus another. So I think that’s kind of a pipe dream. To a certain extent, I know, we all try to reach for balance, but I don’t think it’s true. So you have to deal with the things that are at hand.

Julia: I mean, I agree, I think balance is something you have to define yourself. Because there’s no perfect formula for it.

Kelly: You know, I asked my friends, some of my closest friends before this podcast, what was I like before as a person versus what am I now? And so I could use that information. And they all said the same thing, which kind of surprised me because I feel like I’m a different person. But they said, no, you’re basically the same person. You’re straight shooting, you’re honest to a fault. You have the same characteristics that you did before. However, you became more flexible, less self-centered.

Julia: I’m sure people would say that about me too. Yeah, I’m more empathetic.

Kelly: And they said that they think about me the same way that they always have. However, what they said that they admired most about me was that I stayed true to myself, and I didn’t let motherhood swallow me up. And a couple of them have felt that they let motherhood swallow them up. And I think maybe because two of them that I spoke with didn’t have a career while their kids were young. They chose to stay at home. And they said that they admired that. You know, that while I love being a mom, I also needed fulfillment from my work. And if I was fulfilled, that I would be more happy, and then of course, I would be a better mom to my kids. And so they were surprised that a lot of moms do have those trade-offs and didn’t see that I seem to have them and admired that I was able to juggle both motherhood, career and kids and didn’t lose myself. I feel comfortable saying that because that doesn’t mean that I’m trying to be a bragger because everyone’s journey is different.

Julia: I mean, everyone — there are probably women out there that feel like they didn’t really change at all. And then there are other women that are on the absolute other spectrum that think they completely changed. And we’re all trying to find that balance for ourselves.

Kelly: I really didn’t change more than my friends think I changed. That’s why I was surprised.

Julia: Because they were internal changes for you probably, like little shifts, like we’re talking about, like little perspective shifts that allow you to look at something differently.

Kelly: I’m going to give a political example. Because my husband said, when you become president, you don’t change as a person. You’re still the person you always were because of course, we’re talking politics this week. When you become a mom, do more of your characteristics really come out? I think that’s an interesting question to think about. And I remember that I’m the oldest child, I had two younger brothers in my family. And I was always the caretaker for my little brothers. And I remember as a young teen having dreams about my little brother Colin, who is now 45, with his two children of his own, worried about him that something was going to happen to him, and I had to save him. And those dreams were replaced with worries about my children. So I always had that caretaking part of me inside of me. And I feel that way with my employees. I think when you’re a mom, you start to realize, okay — one of my employees has a mom who’s going through cancer, two of my employees actually have moms going through cancer. Another one has health problems. Another one might be going through something else. So you also have to think about the human aspect of being a manager and a leader. And I think that being a mom helps you remember that human aspect. I’m more empathetic. And my mother has a very strange theory, and I’m not sure I agree with it. But it’s worth discussion. She believes that because women are able to bear children, that they are more able to have empathy. Men, she believes, can have sympathy, but not empathy. And I’m not sure that I agree with her perspective. And so please, don’t tweet hate me. Because I’m not agreeing with that perspective. But I think it’s an interesting way of framing the scenario.

Julia: Women are all the difference.

Kelly: More empathetic than men? Is that because we bore children? I’m not sure. I mean, I could get into a whole discussion about that. But it’s an interesting thought.

Julia: I think it is certainly an interesting thought. And I think maybe most of me agrees with it. Probably. Because we just have a different perspective. To use that word again, we have a different perspective because we had children. But there are women out there that just aren’t like me, and probably don’t feel that way. Maybe they were always empathetic. Or maybe they were less empathetic as a mother because they were overwhelmed. Or they have a different philosophy on bringing up children, who knows?

Kelly: I have an example. And this one drives me nuts. And I know you’re gonna have the same opinion. I just know it. You’re in the airplane, and the air mask comes down and you’re supposed to put the air mask on yourself first and then your child. What do you do?

Julia: Oh, yeah, of course, you put it on yourself first.

Kelly: No, you put it on your kids first.

Julia: I’m gonna put it on myself first. Well, you know, you recently saw, I think you saw probably my Instagram post about my health journey.

Kelly: Yeah, that was really super impressive. I do want to hear…

Julia: You know, where I came from was having kids and breastfeeding for nearly a decade. I was giving myself all away. You know, I was sleep deprived and all of those mom things became really overwhelming. And literally took up 50% of the pie. And then the other 50% was work. And that left zero percent for myself. And what I have learned over time is that you have to put yourself first. So you have to put the oxygen on yourself first. Because if you don’t have oxygen, then you can’t give others around you oxygen. So like one of the things that I’m — you could put it under the category of perspective or balance. A couple of maybe five years ago, I decided, well, as a company, we should be working out, we should take lunch breaks and go work out. And that was my attempt to start carving out time for me, and then also others around me, and being supportive of a healthy lifestyle and a mental emotional break, and a physical outlet. And for about six months, I was able to really do that. And we as a team would go work out. And it was fantastic. And it was such a great break in the day. And I felt everyone around me feeling more positive, because we were doing something out of the office. And it was just so intentional, that the rewards were greater because of that. And so over time, I’ve flowed with being able to afford myself priority and creating boundaries. But when I have, I become more successful, just as a person, because if I’m happy and healthy and feeling good about myself, then it permeates not only at work with my coworkers or my clients, but also within my own household. So that has been a huge shift for me since becoming a mom. And I can also say that before becoming a mom, did I really carve out a lot of time for myself? I mean, probably — I was probably a much more selfish person. I did, I know I did. But I wasn’t into the self care part of it. I was selfish in my time management. But I wasn’t thinking about how my mind, body and spirit had to be in a good place for me to be working on all cylinders. So yeah, my answer surprised you.

Kelly: Well, I’m still going to put on my kids’ mask before my own. Doesn’t mean I’m not going to do self care. It just means my instincts come in, and I want to take care of them first, you know.

Julia: But if you have no oxygen, Kelly, how are you going to get to the last kid?

Kelly: Hold my breath? You know, I think that also leads to another point, which is how you change from kid one to kid three. Not everyone has three kids. But there is a massive change between kid one and kid two. And when you have three, you start to understand why the third kid gets to be the most spoiled and stay out at all hours because you’ve lost all energy. And you have really relaxed as a person because you’re not stressed. I think my youngest child potty trained himself. I don’t remember potty training him at all. Because he always follows his brothers. And I think the more kids that you have also gives you another layer and dimension as a person and as a leader because you start to relax even more and start to go, okay, you know, this is more and more stress. And I can’t keep amping it up. So all I can do is just let it go. And the kids are fine, and they will be fine. And the third child is always the happiest child, always.

Julia: Does that make the middle child joyful?

Kelly: I don’t know if he got the least attention, but he’s just a happy child.

Julia: Same with my third baby. Yeah. At the same time, I think, the more children you have, the more I’ve become more intense about time management. I remember when I had two kids, and one of my clients had just gotten pregnant with her first. And so of course we had all these wonderful stories to talk about and to relate about. Finally, right, because she was becoming a mom and I was already a mom and it was such a great time in our lives. And I remember one day, we were on the phone, maybe we had a 10 o’clock call or nine o’clock call. It was early in the morning. And I had told her I have already lived an entire day before I got to work. She was talking about how she woke up and made breakfast for her husband and he left for work. And she at the time had just such a more relaxed morning than I did. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I made lunches, I have dinner in the crock pot, I got laundry, a load done, I got the trash to the curb, I got two kids to school, I listened to a podcast, I got my breakfast, you know, like I just had a whole laundry list of things that I had done all before I started work. And I hit the day running with a calendar and a list of the things that I had to accomplish. So I think some people might see it as like a negative, like, we just have too much on our plate. So we have to be really structured. But I kind of see it also as the positive. Like, it made me regimented about what I have to get accomplished. And I had to be realistic about my time management. I couldn’t go and promise 10 things, you know, client A, B, C and D, I’m going to get all this done for you in one day. I had to be much more realistic and give them timeframes that worked for me and worked for them without putting so much pressure on myself. So I don’t know, I think while you become more relaxed, and you don’t sweat the small stuff, you also become more efficient.

Kelly: Yeah, I totally agree. That’s absolutely true. And there’s that saying where they say, if you want something done, give it to the busiest person, you know, right?

Julia: Yes, totally.

Kelly: And I remember feeling that way at the kid’s elementary school. I was working, and I was a mom. And then for some reason I volunteered to manage the website at the school. I was like, wait a minute, I don’t need to do this, this is just too much. There’s only so much that you can do. And that’s when you do have to learn to say no and prioritize the things that are really important for you. So I agree with that wholeheartedly. Because of all that, it increases your confidence. So I have become way more confident as a mom, especially as each kid was born. And again, as the third kid was born, I kind of felt like an old pro that I could handle anything. It’s not that you have superhuman capabilities. You adapt because you have to do all these things. And I’m lucky I have a very supportive husband who definitely shares the workload with me. Not every mom does.

Julia: Yeah, I have a husband that’s a Mr. Mom. Especially during quarantine days, when we had a two year old at home 24/7 for six months.

Kelly: That’s good. You’re lucky.

Julia: Yeah. While working 40 plus hours a week. That was a lot.

Kelly: I talked about increased confidence.

Julia: My confidence level was probably like a five before becoming a mom. And I thought that was a lot. And I would say now it’s like, I’m at a good 85 out of 100.

Kelly: I probably put myself about there too. Definitely. And it keeps increasing, I think. But I’ve also hit that milestone where I’m now over 50. And I think also as you age, your self-doubt…

Julia: Creeping in?

Kelly: No, you become more confident. Yeah, you become way more confident. You care less. I don’t know if it’s you care less but you just prioritize what you care about. That’s how — we also talked about being present more. What are the things that are a good perspective and balance?

Julia: How about this one? Patience.

Kelly: Yeah, that’s the biggest one. And the big part about that is there’s that saying that if someone can do something 80% as good as you, you should just let them do it. And yes, hard for type A people to do. But more and more and more, that’s become my priority because I have to let things go.

Julia: My husband and I were talking about this this week, and he said, and I quote, “after watching a kid throw a fit, your coworker losing their mind doesn’t seem that big of a deal.” But it’s true. I mean, people in work, especially as bosses or managers, we have to look out for the teams that work with us. And someone may have an issue, whether it’s personal, something that flows into work from home, or is just purely work related, we have to have patience and understanding. And thank goodness I became a mom before becoming really a manager. Because I had more patience.

Kelly: I would also say, related to that and to the next point, because of quarantine, which has also given us a completely different perspective, we have become more adaptable. There’s my word.

Julia: Yes, we have.

Kelly: Because so many career forces thrown our way this year, it’s like, Okay, do we stop an ad campaign? Do we start it? What’s the new message? How do we change? How do we adapt? How do we push, pull? And so things are no longer surprises, where in the past, it might have been like, oh, gosh, you want to cancel your campaign? I’m like, I thought about that, what if we do XYZ? And you become a lot more anticipatory, because you have to be with kids. You have to be anticipatory. Like, I know my kid’s gonna need a haircut, I know when he’s gonna need school supplies, I know when he’s gonna need this, yada, yada, yada. So that makes me more anticipatory at work, which also leads to the adaptability to what’s happening in the market and the market changes. And COVID, if it’s taught us anything, it’s that you have to be adaptable, and especially in this business of advertising. We’ve talked about the importance of resilience. But being adaptable to change is so important. Have your clients realized that you can roll with the punches, and that something’s gonna be thrown your way and you’re gonna be able to stop on a dime and come up with another alternative solution? That’s what they pay you for.

Julia: And that is 100% being a mom. I mean, I’m sure there are people that have learned the hard way that if they are not adaptable as a mom, or if they can’t improvise, then things are gonna be tough. How about this one? I feel like this is like three things kind of rolled into one that I wrote down, or maybe two things — commitment to helping others, and a better understanding of people in general. And I guess you could roll that into what you were saying earlier about empathy. Moms having empathy. Actually, I would probably put this as number one on my list for my growth. And we’ve talked about our career paths. And they were a little bit different. Like, when I became a mom for the first time, I really wasn’t managing anyone, for the most part, directly. And so when I came back from maternity leave, that’s where I was trying to go, right. And so it came at a wonderful time for me, because I did start to think about those around me differently, and wanting to help them and realizing that if I helped them in their career, it was going to ultimately help me too. Like I was going to learn things that were helpful as a manager, I was going to get a whole new perspective about how they viewed their career or their challenges or their wins. And it just made me such a better human overall, because I just had more empathy.

Kelly: Well, I think isn’t that come down to the whole purpose as to why we started this podcast, to give this podcast to younger women, to give advice that we either didn’t have or wanted to give our younger selves, so that other people might not make the same mistakes that we did or have more guidance. And find people that had been there.

Julia: And yes, because all of our — we’re basically talking because hindsight is 20/20. Right? For our younger selves, and honestly, they’re out there.

Which brings me to the last one on my list, which I wrote for young up and coming people in marketing and advertising. I think becoming a mom really helped me prioritize where I wanted to grow. I knew that I couldn’t do everything, right. Like if I came up with my yearly review, I wanted to do, let’s just say it was five things on the list. Maybe I needed to prioritize the top two things, because maybe not everything was going to be doable with all that I had on my plate and the fact that I was still working through how I was going to balance work and home life. So prioritizing where I wanted to grow, and putting all of my energy into that one thing or maybe two things is just a great overall philosophy for the rest of your career. Like, don’t spread yourself too thin. Instead, go deep on something, become an expert or become good at that craft before moving on to the next thing.

Kelly: Yeah. I don’t have anything to add there.

Julia: I think it’s all awesome. Well, thanks for joining us for another episode of the Two Marketing Moms podcast, signing off. I’ll see you next week.