Insider Tips to Land Your First Job

Episode Transcript

Kelly Callahan-Poe: If you’re a college grad student or new grad trying to land that first job, this episode is your shortcut. Welcome to the Two Marketing Moms podcast. I’m Kelly Callahan-Poe and today’s episode is called Insider Tips to Land Your First Job with Beth Hendler-Grunt. Beth is a recognized thought leader in the college to career space and the author of the book, The Next Great Step, Parents Guide to Launching Your New Grad in a Career, which I have read cover to cover and I have extensive notes for my college-aged sons, which I will push on them during Christmas break.

So, thank you, Beth, and welcome.

Beth Hendler-Grunt: Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Kelly: So, let’s start with there’s a huge gap between how ready grads think they are versus how employers see them. What’s driving that disconnect?

Beth: There’s a number of things. I started this 10 years ago and I think the gap has widened, unfortunately, and it’s changed in different ways. But I think a lot of our young adults and our kids always thought that if they follow this prescribed guidance of going to school, you get good grades, you go to a good college, that the job would be waiting for you when you come out. And the harsh realization is that it’s just not that simple or easy as many expected it to be.

Very often they think the university promised them on the campus tour that this would be taken care of. And they’re realizing after the fact, both students and their parents, that there’s a lot more work that needs to be put into it. Because the rules of the workplace are very different from the rules of academia or how you succeed in school and the expectations are not aligned. So, where many students think they are ready to land a job, barely 50% of hiring managers would agree in terms of them having the right skills and the right preparedness. So, it’s created this major disconnect between what employers expect and what students think that they’re ready to bring. And how do you then bridge that, which is the focus of what we do.

Kelly: Well, on your website, one of the fantastic resources that you offer is 10 insider tips for new grads to get hired. Can we walk through some of these and just have a conversation about each of them?

Beth: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Kelly: So, do you want to start with the first one, which is to start with skills? Because this one I find to be very fascinating how you position it.

Beth: Sure. So very often a lot of families, whether it’s the parents or students will come to me or students think, all right, well, let me just go with what’s in front of me, which is the device in their hand and the auto apply, whether it’s on LinkedIn or Indeed or Glassdoor or Handshake, it doesn’t matter what the platform is. They’re like, there’s all this technology. It must be a numbers game. It must be, let me get as many applications out there and something will hit. And it’s actually completely the opposite.

But before you even apply or submit, I often tell students, stop doing that for a minute. What are your skills? What is it that you have that you can offer an employer? Because employers put out a job ad because they have a problem. There’s either they’re growing or they’re changing or they were acquired or somebody left. Like they have a problem to solve, and you need to be that solution to that problem. And most students don’t understand that. And when they just come out with like, I just want a job and here’s my resume and if you can really express your skills, and I don’t mean when I say skills, it’s not that you’re hardworking or responsible. Those are really good things. Those are attributes. Those are how you do your skill. A skill is something like I have strong analytical skills. I know how to research, but I know how to lead a group.

I have great interpersonal or communication skills. Those are skills. And if you say you have those skills, then you have to be ready to give an example of how you demonstrated it. It doesn’t have to be in a fancy job. It could be, I was the leader on a team project, and this is how I led our group to have success in coming to the outcome. Or maybe you’re a great writer and you write for the school newspaper three times a week and you talk about your process of how you come up with ideas. So, if you say you have a skill, you have to back it up. Can’t just be because someone told you that you’re great at it. But what we find is that when you figure that out, everything else in the job search gets easier after that because you have clarity about yourself. You also have clarity about looking for jobs and companies that need those skills. So, you’re not as haphazard just, you know, I call it spraying and praying. You actually have clarity about what are the organizations or types of roles that need what I know how to do.

Beth: And you’ll notice that I’m not saying it’s based on your major. It might not be exactly lined up and that’s okay. But as long as you get clarity on your skills and understand what they are, it’s so valuable because now you can answer the question, tell me about yourself or any interview question for that matter because you have a story for each of the skills that you’re saying that you’re competent in. And when you start there, that’s when you get real clarity about the kind of roles you want, how to make sure your resume reflects that, your LinkedIn profile reflects that, what you say reflects that. It’s kind of the foundation for the entire job search process.

Kelly: So, two things, it’s important to understand the difference between hard and soft skills. And when you’re selling yourself, you’re selling those hard skills. So, SEO, SEM, computer programming. Soft skills are something that’s really part of your personality. And you really, that’s how you communicate. You communicate; I am a good communicator. I am a leader, those sorts of things. So, it’s important that you focus on those three hard skills, correct? And you are suggesting that people focus on three skills as they’re applying for a new job out of college. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Beth: Yeah, absolutely. So yes, our guidance is to think about your skills, but I only really want you to think about the top three. Of course, we had a big brainstorm. I want you to think about everything that you think you’re great at. But then I want you to think about this idea. And I teach a concept it’s called, what are your core skills? Meaning what are those that you are the most competent, most skilled at, and you enjoy doing? And there’s the little diagram. I’m so glad you have that, right? You see that circle. Because then the center, when you’re honed in on core, that’s when it gets really clear. When you start doing, well, I can also do this and I can also do that, or a topic I call outfield, right? That’s a shiny object. That’s saying, I want to do. I see my friend, they want to be an accountant and they’re working in Alaska and they’re making a lot of money. Well, does that line up with your skills of the skills you have and where you want to be geographically? So, I think a lot of times students get very distracted by what sounds good for someone else may not be good for you.

So that idea of let’s keep it simple. I’m all about simplicity because the process is so overwhelming. Focus on your top three and you need a story for each, even if it’s for your top two skills. And that’s when you get the clarity and you can talk about yourself with confidence. You know how to focus on the organizations that need your skill set. And when you line that up together, all of a sudden, the job prospects become a lot more abundant because you’re really meeting a need.

Kelly: This really breaks it down for students and new grads and that visual especially, because I’m a visual person, was really like an aha moment. Okay, I can show this graph to my sons and say, do this, focus on that 25%. It’s easy to come up with your three top skills. Maybe more challenging to come up with examples of what you did in an internship or a class to explain how you have perfected those skills. But that’s part of the job.

Well, let’s move into building your network. What percentage of jobs come from referrals?

Beth: Over 80% of jobs come from referrals. And I think, well, we’ve had a number of things that’s happened. I’ve been doing this for a while. I think young adults, they’re always a little intimidated to reach out. They don’t want to feel like they’re a bother or they don’t feel like they have anything of value to say or I didn’t do anything good enough or strong enough. And that’s not true. That’s really not true.

And now you throw in a pandemic where a lot of our grads now have been in their bedrooms for part of their education and really missed out on a really critical piece of socialization. And now there’s like this anxiety around reaching out, whether it’s over email. I mean, God forbid a call on the phone, that’s like, that’s the most terrifying. That’s probably one of the most terrifying things that I’ve said. So, when I like to call them, it’s just like total paralysis.

Kelly: I know, no one likes to talk on the phone.

Beth: And so now we even have greater fear around things that you would hope that someone in their late teens and twenties is comfortable doing. They just haven’t had as much practice. But when all is said and done, I don’t care how beautiful your resume is or how perfect your LinkedIn profile is, or if you submit applications to a hundred or a thousand jobs all of that will not be as useful or productive as networking and talking to someone who’s young. You don’t have to speak to the VP or the CEO. Speak to a fellow alumnus who graduated in the last three to five years, who’s doing an entry role that you aspire to. They usually are more than happy to speak with you because they were in your shoes too. And they’re not too far away from it. They just went through it.

And usually, they’ll give you the real insight of what’s going on here. This is how I got the job. This is who you should talk to. This is who I can refer you to. Because inherently also what I think a lot of students don’t understand is that employers inherently are kind of overwhelmed and a little bit lazy, right? As an employer, when I have to go hire someone, I don’t want to review a hundred resumes. I’m going to reach out to my network that I know and trust and say, do you know anybody that fits this profile?

Beth: And the only way that you become the name that someone refers to is if you’ve reached out to that person in the past saying, yeah, I just spoke to this amazing student from my same school. Let me refer them to you. And it’s as simple as that as to how you end up getting a job.

Kelly: So, one of the strategies that you recommend is the LinkedIn alumni tool. I will talk about that a little bit in terms of how to reach out and who to reach out to.

Beth: Yes, I’m a big fan of that. Yes, so I think... Yes, yes, absolutely. So, I think very often students are like, well, how do I find these people? Now, first, before I even talk about LinkedIn, every university has a portal and a database of alumni. So, every student should be asking for access. You’re entitled to it. It’s free. It’s there.

So definitely ask for that because I think a lot of students don’t even know what to ask. But the other piece is I love LinkedIn because if you look at your own profile or you just type in the name of your university, you will then come to your university’s LinkedIn profile. Every college has their own profile. And on that page are a couple of different tabs. It’ll say people and companies or about the school. But there’s another tab on there that says alumni or people. Sometimes they’ve changed it.

And if you click on that, you have the ability to filter who graduated with the same major as you, who’s maybe working in an industry just like you. It shows you what companies they’re at, what year they graduated. So, all of a sudden you can start filtering. This is all free. You don’t even need a premium. You can just start filtering, who’s doing something with a similar major or a similar interest or is in a city that I want to be in or is that a company that I’m interested in? And you can reach out and send a note saying, like you, I’m a fellow alum. I studied this at the same school. I’m really impressed with what you’ve done in your career. I’d like to learn more about your career path. Notice that I’m not saying I need a job. Don’t ask for a job, right? That’s like getting married on the first date. Just be curious, and I’d love to learn more about your role and what you’ve done at this company. And do you have a few minutes to speak on Monday at three or Thursday at two? Speak it really clearly and concisely.

A lot of times your initial messages based on whether you have premium or not, they might limit it. You can just keep a short note of like, I’d love to, like you, went to the same school. I am really impressed with what you’re doing. I’d love to connect because once you connect, then you have their email address, and you can get off of LinkedIn and send them a little bit longer message explaining where you’re at and what you hope to achieve in a meeting together. But it’s super easy and free, and you have to hit send on the email and not be afraid.

Kelly: Well, and everyone wants to give advice, right? Especially if they have a connection to you through your university. And you can do that also with your fraternity, your sorority, your business fraternity. There are so many different ways where you already have these built-in connections that you may or may not realize that you can tap into. Let’s talk about internships. How important are internships in getting your first job?

Beth: Absolutely.

Beth: Yeah, I talk about internships a lot. I think they’re really important in terms of helping you get real world work experience and getting that first job. And employers more and more say, I like where you went to school and I like your classwork, but I’d really like to see what you’ve done in an internship. But I know for a lot of students, especially during a pandemic, you couldn’t get one. It’s very competitive.

I think there’s a statistic that over 8 million students want an internship each year, but only 50% are able to get one. We have definitely a problem right now where the demand significantly outweighs the supply. And I want to send the message that an internship is always good. But I think the definition of an internship can come in a couple of different ways. Now, a lot of students think, well, I want to be in a formal internship that has part of potentially like a rotation program or something that will be a feeder into a full-time job and some of these big companies. And that is a great opportunity. Those are highly, highly competitive. So, if you’re aiming for finance and consulting, the recruiting for those starts two years ahead of time. They start at the end of your freshman year, beginning of sophomore year, and you have to be really clear, directed, and connected to the people who are in those roles. But that’s just a small percentage. I think sometimes students get hung up on the name.

I have to only work for Deloitte or EY or Goldman Sachs. Like there’s thousands, thousands of other companies to work for. And I really encourage students to think about what skills you have and what kind of skills you want to gain. Don’t worry so much about the name of the company or that the profile. Think about what you can acquire and it can come in different ways. You can do it over a summer.

There are companies, there’s a company that I really like. I know the CEO, it’s called Parker Dewey, where they do micro internships where you can do project-based work over two weeks or three weeks or a week and work with big companies who are looking for projects to get done. I think that’s a great way, especially if you don’t have a lot of time, where maybe some of the internships you look for were unpaid and you can’t afford that. So, these are all paid, but they can be done over Christmas break or for a short time in the spring.

So that’s another really good way to get an internship. I also encourage students to think local, especially if you’re a freshman or sophomore, it’s going to be very hard for a big company to hire you. They just like to hire juniors as a lot of their rules. So, I always say, think local, think about what’s the local coffee shop or accounting firm or legal firm or someone in your area that needs help. And it could be helped in whole different ways, whether it’s HR or digital content creation, anything. To me, it’s more important that you get the experience than it is about the name. But these are things that you have to seek out. And as much as your school will have a career fair or resources, definitely go use all those resources. But if you go to school in California and you live in New York City and a lot of the companies are all on the West Coast and you want to be in the East Coast, you’re going to have to do this on your own. You’re going to have to take that initiative, which is why I love networking through LinkedIn, talking to fellow alumni.

Talk to upperclassmen, talk to people who are seniors who might be in your fraternity or sorority and ask them, how’d you get that internship? Who do you know? What do you think I should do? You know, there’s some people inherently in your own network that you don’t even realize to leverage as well as leveraging professors. I’m a big proponent of getting to know your professor. They very often know about internships. People reach out to them saying, I am looking for someone. Do you have anyone in your class? So, not only will it help your grade, I think, but also just to know about potential opportunities. So, I think there’s lots of ways to gain that experience, just trying to make sure it happens.

Kelly: I think in your book you touted a percentage of employers that actually do hire their interns. Was it 30%?

Beth: Really good question. I don’t remember this stat, but I think it depends. You know, we’re an interesting market now. I think that, you know, I wrote the book that was back in 2022, and you are so post pandemic where we did, we did see a pretty high number of employers hiring and making return offers. But I definitely have situations now where I have students who were interns and the companies don’t have the funds that they thought they would, or they don’t have the manpower to oversee an entry-level role or just obviously we have to talk about AI where AI is now potentially taking over some entry-level roles. So, things have really shifted especially right now, the end of 2025 going into 2026. So, it’s not exactly as much of a guarantee as it might have been. So, you have to kind of balance all that together.

Kelly: Got it. Well, let’s move on to the next one, which is your 10 out of 10 rules. Can you talk about that one?

Beth: Sure. So, the 10 and 10 rule is again another way to bring a very simple approach to a very overwhelming process because students will think, wow, I probably need to apply to a hundred jobs or how do I even start? I don’t know which company, I don’t know what organization. So again, try to create simplicity, break it down as you get to pick.

Don’t go to the job board. Don’t see what’s available. I want you to think about what your skills are. And if you could choose, what are the top 10 companies that are of interest to you? Which ones have you seen out there that look interesting? You’d like to learn more. And then at those companies, again, I love LinkedIn as a free tool, find 10 people across those companies who are doing a role that you aspire to. It should be an entry level role.

And it can be using leverage of your alumni network. It could be someone who has a role that did not go to the same school, but someone that you want to reach out to learn more. And I find when you start with 10 people, 10 companies and 10 people as a starting point of this is who I’m going to reach out to. This is how I’m going to network. It builds momentum because at the end of every conversation, it shouldn’t just be, hey, do you have a job for me? Right? There’s a real framework of how you do that. It should be, tell me about your role. I’d love to learn more. Let me tell you a little bit about myself and my skills and what I’m looking for. And at the end of the conversation, it should be, is there anyone else that you think I should speak with or anyone else that you think you could refer me to based on my skills and what I’m looking for? And so, each conversation should yield, rather, another one to two more names that you’re going to add to your list.

So that initial list of 10 becomes 20 and 30 and 40. And now you have this network, a list of people that you’ve connected with, even if they didn’t have an opportunity at that time, it could be, would you be willing if I came back to you and gave you an update in a few weeks, would you be willing to mentor me? People love to help, but they need to be asked. And you need to be direct and ask that and also show value and that you’re following up and that’s another big thing. It’s, you know, once you have these things, I might even be covering another is the follow-up. It’s not just you’re speaking to these people one time. It’s followed up every seven days or every seven to 10 days, especially if they say, yes, I would like to introduce you to so-and-so, or I know someone I want to talk to you with. And it’s also following up with the value of I read this, right? How do you know these 10 companies? That’s let’s go back. How do you even know what 10 companies to pick? Can’t do it in a bubble.

You need to read the news or trade journals that are in your field. And by the way, it can be fed to you. You can set a Google alert. It’ll automatically come to your inbox every week. You can set an alert with ChatGPT. It’ll set you, send you information. There’s so much automation. You just have to tell it what you want, but you have to be reading and paying attention and watching and listening. So, you can also add value when you network with these people.

Kelly: I think that’s a very strong approach to go at it. The thing that I did, obviously I’m much older, I didn’t have any of these resources, was I focused on location. So, I feel like that’s another area. If you have a specific major, where are the top jobs in your major? And that varies by year, it varies by industry. So, this podcast, for example, focuses on advertising and marketing.

So where are most of those jobs? But not only location, but you also need to look at, do you believe in the products and services that these companies are selling? Because having worked at a variety of different companies, if you don’t fit with that particular brand or you wouldn’t purchase those brands, that product, those products or those services, then you’re going to have a really hard time selling them or working for them. So, there’s a lot of other different components to think about, but I do think location is another one to think about. And the other thing that I tout is, at least my own children and when I do speak to colleges, is risk. There’s one time in your life that you should be taking risks and it’s now. So don’t stay in your hometown.

You know, look at job opportunities around the country in places where there’s more opportunities and don’t be afraid to take that risk because 10, 15 years on the line, you’re not going to be able to take as many risks. That’s my two cents.

Beth: That’s a really, really good point. I’ll just comment on two things there. So, one, I do see more and more students want to feel that they are aligned in values when they look at a company in terms of its mission and what it’s doing. I feel like young adults are very aware in terms of what is this organization focused on or what does it contribute to? Do I align with that as a value set? So, I do see that as well. And I agree with you. This is a time to take risks.

The only thing I would say is that it’s in such a crazy economy that it’s very expensive to be financially independent fully in your first job. And we’re seeing more and more students that even though you might get hired, you still might need family support to help with living expenses. And you need to evaluate that. Like, can I afford to live in New York City for my first job? Maybe you need to live in the suburbs of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut to kind of afford that.

Or there might be better places across the country where you can take the leap. I totally agree. And I agree. It’s the one time where you’re not held down by necessarily a mortgage or children and you really can explore. I wish more students would just sometimes be so afraid. They’re just so afraid. And I think another key piece is that we do have a mental health crisis. And I can’t underestimate that enough is that we really have young adults who they’re not the same as they were five years ago, or the young adults that were prior to them, whether through the pandemic, the economy, all of the things that happened on campus in the last few years, and they’re fragile. So, I think all of that needs to be balanced.

Kelly: Yeah, it’s hard when you’re, you feel like to a certain extent, you’re competing with your friends at school and one gets an internship or a full-time job and you don’t, but you don’t realize that it’s not apples to apples. They may be in a completely different field and be in a completely different location. So, it is hard to compare.

Well, let’s dig into it, your resume is a tool, not a ticket.

Beth: Yes, if I had a nickel for every person that said, if you can just fix my resume or if I just fixed this on my resume or I just worked on this or, and I’m not discounting the importance of a resume. It is a tool in your toolbox and looking for a job along with a lot of other tools such as your LinkedIn profile, such as how you talk about yourself, but it’s not going to save you. And especially as a college student, your resume alone will not get you hired. And I think that’s a rude awakening for a lot of college students thinking like, well, I did all these things, or I got involved on campus or I had these internships and I’m sending out my resume and nobody’s responding or I’m applying and I’m not getting any responses. And the reason that is, is because first of all, you’re young, you’re supposed to be young and there’s no way you’re going to have this magical, incredible experience as a young person. And that’s appropriate. You’re still growing and learning, which means you have to do other things to help yourself get found, like speaking to live people over the phone, over video, in person, all the things that are fearful, that make you uncomfortable. And yes, of course, when they see how great your resume is and it lines up with what you say, it helps complete the puzzle, but it’s not the thing that will get you hired. It’s just one piece.

Kelly: So, the stat that I read is that employers spend an average of six seconds looking at a resume. What are the top things that they’re scanning for, assuming it’s not an AI, which is a separate topic?

Beth: Yeah, so assuming a live person is scanning your resume. Yes, on average, they spend six seconds looking at it. And the top thing they look for is metrics. They want to see what percent or what number or what volume of things you worked at, organized, researched, executed on because they are looking so quickly that they know numbers stand out like, I see that you increased — it could be a club. Increased retention or new members of my club by 10%. Oh wow. This person probably knows how to sell. I was able to optimize this coding platform and find our risks. And we reduced our risk profile by 15%. Oh wow. This person has an amazing attention to detail. They know how to code or they know how to use Excel. Like they’re very, very quickly scanning and then having real clarity about your skills.

That line up. So whatever skills you say you have, they need to be in that resume too, and along with metrics. And I think when you can quantify what you’ve done, it makes it very easy for an employer to be like these three metrics. Let’s talk to this person. Again, that’s assuming a live person is scanning it. But I think metrics are really key. Just being really concise and not overly wordy. I see sometimes kids trying to, they’re like throwing so much stuff at it. It’s very heavy and hard to read. So, I’d rather, you know, be clear bullets, concise, not to, you know, don’t make the font a nine font where someone will say my age, you can barely read it. I’d rather don’t load it all up. Right. And then I’ll say to put your most relevant experience. You don’t have to put every single thing.

Kelly: Give me a 12, give me a 12.

Beth: I’m all for part-time jobs, summer jobs, scooping ice cream. It’s amazing. But if you are an engineer and you’ve done coding projects and you’ve done engineering internships, and then you’re saying that you scooped ice cream at the ice cream shop, that’s great, but you could probably take that off. Tell me what’s most relevant for the kind of job that you’re doing unless you did something really unique at that role or you’re trying to fill space. Don’t try to fill the space. I’d rather you, there’s a fine balance. Don’t overdo it with stuff that’s not relevant to the type of job that you want.

Kelly: How similar should your resume be to your LinkedIn profile?

Beth: In my opinion, the resume should be identical in terms of how it’s reflected on LinkedIn in your experience section. But the beauty of LinkedIn is that it gives you another place to write about your section, which I love because a resume doesn’t have that. It also gives you a headline, which a resume does not have. So, to me, those are the opportunities where you can really share more detail about why you’re interested in this, what made you interested in this potential role and what are the skills that you really, you know, or types of roles that you want to pursue based on that. So, it gives you this free form way of expressing yourself that a resume doesn’t allow you to do. So, LinkedIn should absolutely duplicate exactly each of the experience components, but you should have a good headline and a strong about section. Don’t leave those blank.

Kelly: Okay, and this leads really well to quality over quantity. And I want to talk about that, but I also want to talk. I’ve got a couple other comments about One Click, LinkedIn, and AI, so let’s kind of lead you in that direction if you don’t mind.

Beth: Yeah. So, okay. Just in general, like quality over quantity is that you’re okay. So, kind of goes back to what I said earlier, that there’s this thinking that if I just do more, I apply to more, I send out my resume to more, it’ll, something will stick and it’s not a numbers game. And that’s the, I think that’s a hard reality for people thinking that, well, if I just keep loading it in, I should get something and you might get something, but it’ll probably won’t be either real. It could be a scam, or it won’t be aligned with what you are actually good at. I really want you to be, employers want you to be clearer about what you want because when they see that you’re honed in on these are my skills and this is the kind of field that I want to bring it to. Now they know what to do with you or where to refer you to versus when I have students and grads who go into an interview and they say, I really want this job, and I’ll do anything and I’ll do it for anyone. That’s not useful. That’s not useful because I don’t know what you’re good at. I don’t know where to put you. When you’re clear about what you have to offer and when you start to get clear going back to that 10 and 10 of the kind of industries and the type of companies and the kind of roles, it starts to repeat because it starts to be in a very know one person knows another and this is how you get yourself into a more specific role. Employers like to know that you are focused and targeted and have clarity about what you want. And that makes you appealing to them.

Kelly: So, one of the challenges, for example, on LinkedIn is they offer you the opportunity to do a one-click application, which means there’s no opportunity to differentiate yourself. There’s no opportunity to take your resume and update it, so it relates to that particular job description. And there’s no way to send a cover letter. Are you against these types of tools that do one-click?

Beth: For college grads and college students, yes, I don’t think it’s a good use of time. You think that the one click that sends you to all these people is actually going to yield results, but I can tell you I have spoken to hundreds and hundreds of students who say I do this and they don’t get a good result. So, I know it’s very misleading. Now I’m not saying if you’re mid-career or not, you have a unique skill set, but it’s not really, I feel like in general, that’s not how they are misleading you with how it works. That’s not how it works. It’s good for them because they have companies paying them to be on the platform. You know, there’s a, they’re a business too. You have to put everything in for their business, even though they’re a free resource to it. They’re a business as well. And that easy application and that easy click is actually not in your benefit. It’s only for them. They’re the ones who have LinkedIn benefits, not the employee, not the one who’s applying.

Kelly: It’s nice to hear that flat out. What about the AI trackers? Because we also hear that the employers themselves are using AI to scan the resumes. And so, most of the resumes never actually make it through to the hiring manager because they’re supposedly using AI scanners. Is this the case, A, and B, from a student perspective or, sorry, an entry-level graduate perspective, do their resumes need to be redone based on keywords that are appropriate to that particular job description that fit for the AI scanners, because that takes you down a whole other loop.

Beth: Great question. So, I have spent a good part of this year studying, reading, understanding AI, whether how students use it, how I use it for my business, what I’m doing with it. And here’s where I’m at. And I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with multiple hiring managers who solely do college and campus recruiting at big companies like Morgan Stanley and Wells Fargo and New York Life and all kinds of organizations and tech, finance, manufacturing, and it’s interesting, it does vary. But I’ll call AI filtering the same as ATS, which is an automated tracking system, which companies have been using for years to sort through all of the resumes, the same way they use one-way interviews on HireVue where they scan it and see whether you say the right keywords. So, in the end, unless you have, like I do, not as a young adult, you’re just not going to have all the criteria that’s needed. It’s kind of interesting, a couple of things that happened recently. So, a lot of these tech companies were using AI to scan for incoming candidates. And then they realized that candidates were using AI to apply, and then they had AI reading the resumes, and then they had no good results.

So, both Cisco and Microsoft recently backed off and made a declaration saying, we’re no longer using AI to scan resumes. We’re actually using people because we weren’t getting good results. So, it’s starting to, no one’s getting hired. No one’s getting hired. And the other term that I love that has come about is that human thought and human review is now considered a luxury, right? Because you are the ultimate person who would be hiring these people and people realize that wow, if I really want to get good people, I need to have people on the other end doing it. So as much as you think AI or stuffing with the right keywords or putting all the right information, I’m going to go back. People hire people. And until our universe is eliminated of people, which right now that’s not the case, you need to connect with people to get a job. It’s all to me a huge distraction to think that AI will even like — trust me, employers know when AI wrote your resume, do not use AI to do that. They can tell immediately how robotic it looks and how clean and too perfect, like that’s not a person. And making those relationships. So, you know, yes, I think we’re all being a little bit misguided and putting a little too much trust in technology. It’s not going to save you.

Kelly: Knowing that the cover letter had a resurgence these days.

Beth: Has the cover letter had a resurgence? Well, I think it varies by, well, I think, you know, people write their cover letters on AI too. And I understand that. Think if AI knows you enough or if you know, here’s my opinion about, you know, all these letters or cover letters that you always have to write about. You have to write it yourself first with your brain, with difficulty. And then if you want to finesse a sentence or two, yeah, sure. Throw it into chat. Help me say the sentence more concisely.

Kelly: Or will it?

Beth: But don’t lead with AI to write your cover letter. Don’t lead with AI to write it yourself and then go by like bullet by bullet or line by line to get a little bit tighter. I really like grammar and fixing it or being more concise. I think when employers ask for a cover letter, I think you do it. That kind of usually the question is, should I write a cover letter or should I not? Because again, similar to that section on LinkedIn, it’s your way to add additional color about yourself that your resume can’t show. Maybe your resume doesn’t show why you had the gap or why you maybe took an extra summer to do coursework instead of this or why. What I love about the cover letter is it’s your chance to tell the employer what you know about them and why you think your skills align with them. Your resume can’t do that. In the cover letter, you can say, I am so impressed with this acquisition or how you’ve made these changes and what I’ve been following about your organization. And here’s why I think I could help you to be more successful. That’s powerful in a cover letter, but you can’t write in a resume. And that’s the same kind of conversation you want to have in your interview.

Kelly: Just a couple more questions. You say that college services and career fairs are underutilized gold mines. Can you comment on that?

Beth: Yes, so it was funny. I think you made a comment earlier about taking risks. But here’s my comment about career services and career fairs and on-campus networking. When you are in college, this is the only time in your entire life that employers are coming to look for you. The only time. I mean, unless you do something really amazing when you get older. But for the most part, that will never happen again.

And unfortunately, students don’t realize that. And I understand they are trying to manage adjusting to college, their social life, and going to school. Sometimes the career fairs are right when you have a class. But it’s a regret that I hear over and over again from students who graduated saying, I should have used more of the campus resources.

I didn’t realize or I thought it wasn’t going to be helpful or my friend said it wasn’t good, so I didn’t go. But there’s so many areas of that and look, let’s be honest, some career services are good, some are not so good. I’m not going to, but you have to at least give it a shot. But there are employers who are actually coming on site to meet you in a career fair, in a networking session. And I’ve spoken with people who run these, you know, who represent companies at these career fairs. They’re like, we’d love to see the same student year after year, because to me it shows a pattern of interest and commitment. And I want to see you the year after. And I also tell students that you should start going as a freshman. And freshmen will say, well, why would I go to a career fair? I barely have figured out how to find my class from my dorm. And the number one reason why freshmen and sophomores go to career fairs is because you get to practice and it’s low risk. You can try it out.

You can practice introducing yourself. You can see what it’s like. You can see what it’s like when all the people are waiting online. You can see how people are dressed, how they have a portfolio, how to act professional. Just practice going to some of the tables that don’t have a long line and introducing yourself because now when it really matters, you’re like, I’ve been here before. I know how this goes. And now I feel more confident. I feel more prepared. I know how to be ready for this.

Kelly: My sons have gone to career fairs, but never to the career center. So that’s something that I will steer them towards. So, my last question is, you’ve helped over a thousand grads. What is the common thread among the ones who succeed quickly?

Beth: Here’s the common thread of when a student will succeed in getting an internship or the job and the ones who struggle.

Those that have tried to find a job on their own and applied with EasyApply and fixed the resume and has done all the things that they thought they were supposed to do and they still don’t have a job, those are the students that I know we can help because they’ve suffered the pain and the disappointment of it not going the way they thought.

So, when they are finally ready to say, you know what, I’m ready for a new approach, I’m ready for a new way, because whatever I thought and whatever people told me, it doesn’t work. So, when I get that student who’s ready to embrace what we are guiding, which might feel a little different, it might feel a little uncomfortable at times, when they follow through exactly what we tell them to do, they land the job.

And I’m not a recruiter and I’m not a headhunter and I don’t place them in jobs. I give them exactly what they need to do to be successful in the first job and the second and the third. So, it’s all of the components that help you throughout your career. But I find that you have to be ready and open to hear the advice. If you feel like you haven’t given it a shot yet, or your parents are telling you what to do, or you feel you just want to do it on your own, go for it. But there’s a readiness of when you’re really ready to hear someone else give you the guidance. And I think that’s what the difference is between someone who is really successful in our program versus someone who felt forced. Now we really try to vet that we don’t, tell parents like you can’t sign your kid up. I have to speak to them. Like I have to, I want to make sure they want it. But sometimes people, you know, lie and whatever. But those who are really ready and ready to like kind of see a new way of approaching it and this whole concept of skills, I think that’s a big, big eye opener for a lot of students. When I say stop applying for like the first two weeks that we’re working, don’t apply to a job. Like, what do you mean I’m not applying to a job? And this whole kind of just getting to know yourself. I think when you get clarity on who you are and what you want, you come across, know, I actually say we’re in the confidence building business. You come across confident because you know what you want and you know what you’re going to say, and you’ve done your homework on the company, and you know it. You just have to know you. You’re the subject. The test is on you. You just have to figure out the right way to say it and we kind of help pull that out of them. And I think those students who really embrace the approach, those are the ones who get hired.

Kelly: Beautiful. Well, along with your book, The Next Great Step, and your website, nextgreatstep.com, you have many resources that I’m going to mention because I really went deep when I took a look and saw what you offer. You have a college to career roadmap that gives you advice by year, freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior, what are the things, specific steps and things that you should be doing. You have the 10 insider tips for getting hired, which we’ve talked about here today. You have a LinkedIn and a resume checklist. All sorts of wonderful resources, but your best resource is How I Found You, which is on Instagram, where you do daily videos that are just fantastic and very helpful. So please follow Beth on Instagram. I’ll include her information in the transcript. Her videos are great.

You can listen or watch this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or on twomarketingmoms.com. Don’t forget to subscribe and share, and thanks for joining.