Rewiring Your Nervous System for Business Success

Episode Transcript

Kelly Callahan-Poe: If you want to learn how to rewire your system to lead with calm, listen in. Welcome to the Two Marketing Moms podcast. I'm Kelly Callahan-Poe and today's episode is called Rewiring Your Nervous System for Business Success with Genevieve Skory. Genevieve is a former $350 million sales executive turned resilience coach who blends sales psychology with nervous system science to help achieving women scale sustainably without burnout. Welcome Genevieve.

Genevieve Skory: Hey, thank you for having me.

Kelly: I was so excited in our first conversation because all the things that we were talking about resonated so much. So I want to dig in and ask you one of my main questions, which is you're a resilience coach with a psychology background. What does that mean?

Genevieve: Yeah, it means one, I understand it and two, I've been there, which I think is really important. So I specialize in helping high performing entrepreneurs, those of us that are kind of type A, really set ourselves up for success by navigating the highs and the lows of our journeys and doing what I call mapping out personal strategies that provide emotional and mental and tactical support for the journey. Like we're setting up the resilience thing for you because those of us that are high achieving I think really need it.

Kelly: Well, I want to jump into the resilience mapping that you talk about. But first I want to ask, based on your, you talk to women on a daily basis, you coach women on a daily basis on these topics, what are the core challenges that women are having with their nervous systems right now?

Genevieve: Well, I think the first thing is identifying that it's a nervous system issue. I think this is new for a lot of women. Like we tend to think like, it's me, like it's me. There's something wrong with me. I've got to push harder or it's a mindset issue. When in actuality what's happened is you've been achieving at this level for so long. You've been playing really hard for a really long time. And your nervous system has reset itself into protection mode. So women start to spiral and they think that spiral is failure when in actuality, it's just a learned pattern that your body has settled into. And your body then interprets every board meeting, every new sales meeting, every zoom call, every sales call now as something that it should be guarding against and it goes into kind of fight or flight mode and it causes people to like freeze and procrastinate like big procrastinator and then what follows is just this sense of guilt and I can't keep up and maybe I'm not good at what I do.

Kelly: How do people know that they've hit this problem? Do other people call it out to them? How does it usually work?

Genevieve: Unfortunately, I wish I hope to get to a point where people like, know, Sally, you in danger girl, like dial it down. You know, but most people don't really know it. And so what happens, I believe is most women burn out or they leave and, and well, they quit, like they quit and leave or they quit and stay but they get into like a settle pattern, which I don't think is often identified as like, you just got to reset your nervous system.

Kelly: Let's talk about how that you do this and you call this resilience mapping, correct? Can you tell us about that and the three-step framework for breaking those learned patterns?

Genevieve: Yeah, so I start off with a little story. I remember starting off in both my entrepreneurial life and my executive life. And I had one friend who was a super high performer, just like me. And I remember her advice to me was always like, gotta learn how to play the corporate game. And most people don't understand that there's a whole language, there's a whole culture, and the higher you get, the more you kinda need to know. But people aren't really out there telling you these are the things that you need to be mindful of. So I think what happens is women set themselves up for failure by having some fantasy about that next job, right? I've got to get the next promotion because fantasy, or I've got to have my own business fantasy. And nobody says, hey, there's ups and downs here. It's like baseball, there are innings and you strike out and there are balls and you've got to set up a strategy to navigate the terrain, right? So a strategy is just your plan to survive, your plan to win. So the first thing that we want people to do is start to look at the journey and think about where are there going to potentially be some pitfalls? What don't you know that you don't know that you don't know. And then I think honestly, like there's a foundational component even before the steps of let's just make sure we're really, really clear on what your values are. Because what I found is that the underlying reason that most people get themselves into kind of a place where their nervous system has gone off the rails is they've been untrue to their values. They've adopted somebody else's values. And I get that, I've been there. We talk about setting a framework first or setting a foundation first that let's make sure you're clearing your values. Let's make sure we know where you want to go. And then we can talk about here's the day-to-day component. So step number one is we got to start looking at your day, your weeks, your months, your past history and figure out what are the patterns that start this nervous system problem if you will, right? And by nervous system, I mean, for you all that are listening, it's the tension that you feel and you're not sure why, right? Like you should be excited, but you're freaking out a little bit. It's the lack of motivation to get something done. It's this fight or flight thing. Like I'm very good at what I call an unguarded response. That is my go-to. Like my nervous system, when you're in your amygdala, which is your fight or flight part of your brain, everybody reacts differently. So you're either going to see things as something you need to, like I'm gonna attack first, right? Or you're gonna run from it. And there are just various versions of that. And so we try to make people aware first. So we educate people.

Kelly: So you're a fight, not a flight.

Genevieve: Definitely a fight. Fight and then I'm gonna fly. I'm just like, you know, I'm gonna get that first punch in and then I'm running, you know? And it's really interesting because people talk about like, you know, ghosting. You hear people say, I was ghosted. And I'm like, you weren't ghosted. She like just ran in her fight or flight mode. That was like a strategic, actually not strategic. It was a response to something that was happening. You'll notice sometimes you get tight in your chest, know? So you might get tight in your chest. I'm gonna go for, we're gonna burn this all down. We're burning it all down right here and right now.

Kelly: I'm a flight, I admit it.

Genevieve: And so what we try to do is identify like what causes that? And for me, I know I get like that when I feel like I'm being challenged and my brain says challenge is bad because challenge means you're not doing a good job, which is not at all the case, right? But you can see how in a work environment or in interactions or relationships, if every challenge causes this response, it's not going to work out so well, you know? So that's kind of step number one. What are your patterns? Do you know what your patterns are? Can you recognize any of that in you?

Kelly: Because my dad called me out on it. He said, when things go bad, you just flee. You get the heck out of there. And I think that's true because instead of being brave and explaining here my issues A, B, and C, you know, I don't stand up to it, which I need to work on, clearly.

Genevieve: Yeah, and if you have someone that can help you with that, if you can talk to someone throughout your week and we can dissect, what happened this week? What were your patterns? What were your triggers? Because if you know what your triggers are, then hopefully, the idea is we can watch for them, we can create a response, and that leads to step number two, which is we can learn to regulate before we react. So I don't know about you, but I have been in meetings where I look at people and I look at an interaction and somebody just, they take a minute. They take a minute and they like, you know, they kind of inhale, exhale, and they might even look off a little bit, or they might look down at their paper and write something and then look up. And I always think about that, and I'm like, wow, how do you have the discipline to not reach across the table and strangle that person? Where does that come from? You know, I was not raised in a household where the first reaction was, you know what, stop and pause, stop and pause for a minute. So the second step is really to ask yourself like, okay, what can I do to soften the moment to slow myself down? If I understand like, this, because in a lot of cases what we find is like, person X tends to trigger, you know? Sometimes it's a conversation with your boss. Sometimes it's a conversation with your junior. Sometimes it's a customer. Sometimes it's a relative. Like there's a lot. So we plan out the week. Know what's happening this week. We know what meetings are you gonna be in? What do you have to do this week that is potentially going to be a trigger for you? And then let's figure out coping mechanisms so that you understand we can train the body to instead of feeling unsafe and going into fight or flight mode, taking a minute, take that cleansing breath and then respond based on a response that we maybe have pre-planned.

Kelly: You say that most women don't need more strategy, they need more safety, which is kind of in line with what we're talking about. Can you elaborate on that?

Genevieve: Yeah. So what happens, I think, especially in the corporate world is, and I'm going to say to a lot of high performing corporate women are also around a lot of men and men deal with stress very, very differently. Men have a completely different nervous system reaction to many things. And so a lot of times we adopt behaviors that just really aren't our best strategy, which is like, okay, I'm going to go get more training. I'm going to go and learn another tactic. I'm going to figure out how to, and I'm going to say this very lovingly, but sometimes it feels a lot like I'm going to figure out how to manipulate people so that I don't have to feel this way. When in actuality, what you want to do is you want to learn how to be calm in the moment to observe, but not necessarily participate, if that makes sense. So when things start to get a little weird, instead of going like, you know, on guard, it becomes like, hmm, that was an interesting response. I don't have to adopt the energy associated with whatever is going on. And Mel Robbins talks a lot about like, hey, your body doesn't really know the difference between excitement and, you know, fear. You can tell yourself this is fun. Right? This is exciting. It is not scary. This is exciting, right? It's kind of along those same lines of just rewiring yourself. And a lot of women, I think, get stuck in like, there's something wrong with me. I need another class. And it's like, no, girl, you just need to learn how to get that nervous system to not think that every one of those growth opportunities is a threat, is a threat to you and then your body then just reacts. If you've ever done the lip thing, that's one of my things. Yeah, the lip just starts to twitch and I'm like, what is happening? Body, do not betray me right now. Sometimes even a little eye twitch for people.

Kelly: Or gets nervous?

Genevieve: Right? That's honestly, that's your body trying to tell you like, we're not safe. We're not safe right now. And so it really is just recognizing like my approach needs to be something a little more soulful, if you will.

Kelly: The other thing that you said, which I need my glasses to read, was your presence tells the story before you too.

Genevieve: Yes.

Kelly: So people can tell and calculate your energy when you walk in a room.

Genevieve: Yeah, an energy is seen, but before it's seen, it's felt. It's felt. So there's actually some research that says that the way that you're feeling actually is feelable, if you will, up to like 10 feet around you. So your energy is actually this thing that can be measured where people are like, I like, and you know, I think the best example of that is pets tune into that. There are a lot of people that are like, my dog doesn't like anyone, but they like you. And it's always like that really sweet, nice person that's super calm. Animals tune into that. There's also, I think we experience that with just even out and about, you know, if you've ever been somewhere and things are getting a little messy or weird or potentially confrontational and someone's in the environment and just their presence kind of settles everything down. So your presence, your energy can work against you without you actually even really knowing it. And that's unfortunate for a lot of people.

Kelly: Well, are there any other strategies as part of the framework of resilience mapping that you can mention?

Genevieve: Yeah, yeah, well I think what's gonna happen for most people is you're gonna have to practice it, you're gonna have to practice a lot of it. And I always ask people, have you ever been on like a ride at an amusement park? And have you ever been afraid on the ride? And most people will be like, yes, oh my gosh, there was this time, I was on this roller coaster, I rode it, screamed the whole entire time. And I said, now when you get to the bottom of the ride and the ride is over, what is typically your reaction?

Kelly: It was fine.

Genevieve: Yeah, right? In a lot of cases, you're like, that was fun. Let's go again, right? So you've taught your body that you can survive this. And then what happens in your brain is it gets categorized in the safety part of the brain. So that experience is no longer a threat to you. But for a lot of people, you just gotta keep moving it over so it's a little less stressful. Once you learn how to regulate before you react, you just make these little micro shifts. It's kind of like next time that happens, I'm gonna do this. Or in business, it's like, it scares me to make cold calls, or it scares me to close a sale, or it scares me to ask people for appointments. And it's like, great, what small step can we take in that direction so that your body starts to see, like you didn't die when that happened. And I can't remember, it was a movie or something, it was a movie, and some crazy thing happened, and at the end of it, one of the guys said, yeah, but you didn't die. And I was like, that's perfect. That is exactly the mantra we need. Yeah, but I didn't die. And the more you can get to that place where you're like, okay, I'm willing to work through it. I'm willing to set myself up. I'm going to create part of resilience mapping is creating support strategies so that you can go and talk to people and have the support when it happens. And you don't feel guilty because if you pile on to a nervous system issue, another bad reaction, all you've done is solidify and hardwire in your brain. See, that didn't work out for you. So each time you interrupt, you need to take a win. And that's the other part of resilience mapping is how are we going to measure progress and wins every step along the way.

Kelly: That makes a lot of sense. Well, what are some other ways, you know, I'm sure there's some people who might be listening thinking, I've been through this, I've been there. I get rattled when I am working in a room or a board room and you have to pick out what seat you want to pick at the table, for example, or if I have to present or if my boss is presenting. And you can visualize how you would interact in those rooms and how you might not be as calm as you would imagine yourself to be because you're intimidated or yada, yada. So are there any other tactics or strategies that you can take to calm the mind and to kind of get back into this stabilizing the nervous system?

Genevieve: Yeah, great question. And I think it's as easy as getting in tune with what you're feeling. So a lot of people experience something, but they don't really stop in the moment and ask themselves, where am I feeling this? Right? Like, I think it really does help to stop and think, OK, where am I feeling this? And it's like, I'm feeling it in my head. I have like a crazy headache or my head is spinning or I'm feeling it in my chest and now I'm having a hard time breathing or like sometimes my hands are tingling, just literally putting some attention on that in that moment. Because here's what happens, I love visualization and I think visualization is an absolutely great practice. It has to come along with feeling. It has to come along with feeling. So if we know that this is gonna be a trigger, let's say you have to do a presentation, you know it's gonna be a trigger. What we have to do is put ourselves mentally in that space. Great. You're talking all of sudden what's happening. Like, my gosh, my throat is getting dry. You know? Great. So you're feeling it in your throat. I'm feeling it in my throat. Can you relax your throat? Can we relax? Yep. Okay. Can we start before we even get in the room and like, here's the little exercises that you're going to do to regulate your nervous system. So we can look at all sides of the experience, the feeling part is what has to be rehearsed. What has to be rehearsed. Like for me, a lot of times I'll think like, my gosh, I'm going to be in a room with so-and-so and they just make me nervous, right? They just make me nervous. Well, picking apart the real reason behind why they make me nervous is also part of the resilience mapping. It's like, well, what about that person puts them on a different playing field than you? Because if you think about why somebody makes you nervous, it's because you're judging them as better than you in some way, shape, form. And if we can get to what does that feel when that happens, how can we get you? And sometimes for people, it's breathing. Sometimes for people, it's put a piece of paper in front of you, put your hands on the paper, write out the words. I am calm and like that's the strategy that I do. I always like, I actually have stickers on my thing that say, stay calm, stay calm, know, just stay calm. And so it does, it's practice. I mean, it really is practice. You know, I just, I got done playing pickleball, love pickleball. And it, my stress point at pickleball is the no volley zone because the ball speeds up there.

Kelly: Yeah, I do too.

Genevieve: And I was watching a video of this woman and she goes, really, you need to calm the whole game down. And she put the strategy out there. She's like, just put your paddle out here, relax, and then let the ball hit the paddle. Don't react to the ball hitting the paddle. And I was like, aha, let me try that. And I did. And it works. You know, it's like, okay. So for some people, it's just like, let's just create awareness. Let's create a strategy instead so that you're not reacting. And then let's continue to practice it so that now you're hardwired to do the safe thing instead of the reacting.

Kelly: Two more questions if you don't mind. One, how did you fall into this area of expertise? And then two, what are you seeing recently with the people that you coach, the women that you coach? Are you seeing more patients? Because right now things are crazy with government shutdown in DC, so it's a different story here. But are we seeing a lot more pressure and stress that women are feeling on these topics. So I know that's a two-part question, so I'll let you figure out how you might want to answer.

Genevieve: Yeah, yeah. So question number one was I had to fix myself first, to be honest. I was a crazy toxic hustler. If I was not busy, like one of the strategies, I will tell you, that I had to learn to employ is you gotta actually rest. Like you have to rest. Like I had to train myself. It was safe to not have my laptop open every weekend. And when I coach people and I tell them, you have to pick two days, two consecutive days where you're not going to work, you can literally see like the perspiration starting. So for me, I had this great career. I loved what I was doing and I put that in quote because that became the justification for the hustle, like all the time. I would work until late. I would work during the day. I loved it. I told myself, and I just really burned myself like way out. I realized that there were so many parts of my life that I wasn't experiencing because I was always putting the work, the hustle in place. I'm super competitive by nature and so I had to learn how to like everything's not a competition. I don't know if anybody can relate to this if we have time for a quick story. I realized I had a problem when my husband and I went on a cruise and we were on these little canoes canoeing through the Bahamas. It was beautiful and I didn't want to be the last couple on leisurely beautiful, like, and I mean, like, literally last in line. And so I'm like, come on, let's go. I'm like, what are you doing? Like pedal harder, pedal. And he turned around and he looked at me he's like, stop, you're at like a 20. You need to be at like a two. This is not the Olympics. We do not have to get to the shore before the people, like we were second to last and I was in this line of people. But my nervous system was wired to like win, win, win, go, go, go. And so I had to actually take some time to start really assessing how I was showing up. And I did a lot of self-reflection. I have spent a lot of time studying a lot of this topic. And I just put it together as a framework. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can see clearly now this is how this all fits together. And then I started to talk to other women and they were like, yeah, that's me, 100%. Like I never don't work on the weekends. I put my kids to bed and then I log back on and all of this kind of stuff. And so for me, it was that. And then talking to my inner circle and then finding even in their inner circles, everybody was experiencing the same thing. And I'm like, you can't perform at that level and still perform well for an extended period of time. So that's how I stumbled upon it and then put some structure around it and then began to help other people. Your other question, I can't even remember now...

Kelly: I was asking about your current clients that you work with. Are you seeing a big increase, a tick up in clients who are having these same issues? And is there a generalization that you could provide based on what you're seeing? There may be, there may be not. I just would be curious.

Genevieve: Yeah. So what I am experiencing right now with people, the clients that I work with are one, the environment feels very uncertain to so many people, whether you have a job or you have a business, people are steeped in uncertainty. The brain doesn't like uncertainty at all, at all. And so what a lot of women are doing that tends to help, even if you're not enlisting a coach or what have you is spending 15 to 30 minutes a day intentionally, intentionally showing up in a more peaceful way. So it's, I'm going to listen to a podcast about calm confidence. I'm going to listen to a podcast about resetting my nervous system. I'm going to meditate or I'm going to pray or I'm gonna start my day from the spot that I want to be in instead of just starting my day and reacting. But then it's resetting at lunchtime and it's resetting again in the afternoon. So we're not taught that. Like there's nothing in the corporate world that says, you know, three times a day, you should just stop and you should breathe. And my calendar is back to back. Like I would be in a meeting at 10, ending a meeting that was supposed to, I was supposed to be somewhere else starting a meeting at 10. That's insane, insane. Like that immediately puts you, so we'd work through those things and we'd build in time and that's what we're doing now. And I do think more women, one, are just at a place where they're like, I don't want my job to be everything. Like, I don't want it to be the only thing. I really, really don't. And then I have to learn how to trust the process that takes some intention. And I think now people are more aware, because everything feels so volatile. Know? That just, these people are laying off. But if you can just watch it, observe it without participating in it. That's the real win. Hmm, right? If the answer becomes, hmm, that's interesting. Instead of judgment, you're gonna be far, far better off because you'll put your brain in its executive center. You'll be able to make better decisions even if it is something that you do need to respond to. So there's a difference between reacting and responding to something. And I do think most women right now are in a place of there's a lot of uncertainty. I just need some strategies, you know, for whatever comes my way. And yeah, I am finding that people are more, I think they're more open, Kelly. I think they're more open than they've ever been because there's been so much uncertainty. For me, it was, my gosh, I've spent so much time doing this with this company and is this really like do I feel like it adds value to my life the way I wanted it to and I think women are just at a place where they're kind of like I need more I need more value I need less hustle I need more calm you know and and I can think better but and you can you can think much better more strategically when you're calm it's a strategy calm.

Kelly: I'm seeing it a lot more in women over 50 who have been working for 30 something years, 35 years and are tired and want to make a move to do something that they can do on their own and be self-employed. I see that as a huge trend. We're seeing those numbers go down of women in corporate America are pulling out and why they're pulling out, childcare and a variety of issues, so it's something to be aware of.

Genevieve: Yeah, well, I love that woman on social media, the We Do Not Care Club.

Kelly: I love her.

Genevieve: She just needs a corporate version. It's like, we do not care. We do not care if the meeting starts at 10 and the other one starts at 10. One starts and ends at 10. We do not care. We do not care if our shoes don't match the outfit. And I do think too. I think you're right. That's a by product of building up, building up, building up stress and getting to a point where the body finally goes like, it's not safe anymore. Yeah. So.

Kelly: Which is funny because then it becomes the hustle and it's all about the hustle. So how do you do the hustle calmly? Your plan B job, which was always your hustle, becomes your plan A job.

Genevieve: Yeah. Well, and I will tell you. And you have to fix it. You actually have to fix it. You have to fix that toxic hustle. You have to fix that nervous system issue. It'll just follow you to the plan B. When I talk to women who I coach, a lot of them, this has been a pattern for decades, for decades. Guilty. I actually have had conversations with people lately that have felt so good and they've been so different than what I'm used to. And it's just been in reference to, what do you want to do? And how are you doing it? And I'm kind of like, you know what? I'm assessing, which was never my answer. My answer was never, I'm going to assess the situation and then I'm going to make a decision. It was always, oh, I know exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to just keep going. And I'm like, I give myself a win for that. I'm like, you know what? Good on you that you took a minute to say, I don't know. Let me give that some thought, some thoughtful contemplation, and then I'll get back to you. And in my head, I'm thinking, I'll get back to you on the thing that's best for me and what I want my next step to be. Very empowering, which that's my kind of my real hard work is convincing people that that calm is actually far more fulfilling than the we gotta win, we gotta hustle, we gotta drive. Like there's so much more power that comes from calm than crazy responses that your nervous system is controlling.

Kelly: Love it. I will work on it myself. Well, thank you, Genevieve for joining us. Find her contact information at twomarketingmoms.com and don't forget to subscribe and share. Thanks for joining.

Genevieve: Thanks for having me.